Meh

Oct. 11th, 2015 03:54 pm
shivver: (Five in Ten's TARDIS)
[personal profile] shivver
Maybe the problem was that I wasn't particularly convinced of the dire situation from the first episode. Or maybe the episode was just weak? I can't tell.


The cliffhanger honestly killed most of the suspense in this episode. When the ghost Doctor appeared, my first reaction was (as I noted before), "Oh, like we really believe he's dead." Then, since they had already mentioned that the ghosts were some kind of projection, it became pretty obvious that the Doctor was still alive somewhere and that the ghost Doctor is just a projection. And then a little ways into the episode, they mentioned the suspended animation chamber, and that clinched it. So, we already knew how he was going to get out of it.

The episode seemed to mostly be concerned with showcasing the bootstrap paradox, which is something that we've seen a number of times already in the series and the universe has not really cared about. Example: Exactly who came up with the idea of blowing up the TARDIS in "Time Crash"? And the Doctor has sent messages to himself in the past before. It was cool enough.

One of the things that bugged me was the whole "omg, the universe is going to explode if I change history and avert my death!" thing. Again. You know, after the whole Battle of Trenzalore thing just sort of disappeared and the entire end of the Time War was completely changed. I'm not saying that I object to either of these two plot developments (or that I don't), but it's kind of getting tired, especially since none of the horrible consequences the Time Lords fear ever come to fruition. However, for this episode, just like with season 6, it turns out that the death everyone "saw" didn't happen. Or perhaps it did, but the Doctor changed the history, and there were no consequences. I'm really not sure.

And then there's Clara. I'm sorry, but if someone says they're going to die, who responds by saying, "No, you're not going to die, because that would really hurt me, so you can't do that"? I honestly cannot connect with this character at all, and she poisons the rest of the episode.

The last thing that really bothered me was the Doctor's attitude that rather than saying "I'm going to save everyone", he's running on "I'm going to save Clara." I realize that, just like having a deaf character was simply a plot point so someone could read lips, this was said so that the Doctor, upon hearing the list of words, would be stimulated to try harder because Clara was the next person to die, but this is a more recent development in the character of the Doctor that I don't like. He's turned from the hero trying to save the world to a man with an obsession for one person.

So, you see, I really couldn't like the episode because it started with such a bad taste in my mouth and did nothing to sweeten it. Oh, I have one other question. If a person who can't hear is expecting to be attacked while walking down a corridor (especially by foes who can walk through walls), does she really simply face in one direction and never look behind her? Yeah... That's the kind of questions I was asking myself all the way through the episode. I'm not saying that I never used to question things like this in older episodes, but it just seems so common as of late.

Oh, one more question. Was the relationship between O'Donnell and the guy (don't remember his name) apparent at all before she died? Did I just completely miss it?

Date: 2015-10-12 12:35 am (UTC)
bas_math_girl: Doctor Come With Me (Doctor Multipass)
From: [personal profile] bas_math_girl
My main problem is with the way they are setting the Doctor and Clara up in this season in exactly the same way they did the Doctor and Rose in S2 - making them annoying prats where each other are concerned (and making me not care less about them in the process). The other people trapped with them are mere toys to ensure that their 'love' will endure.
There was no ust set up between O'Donnell and Bennett, although it was easy to guess what route they would take things once she was dead; and for some convenient reason Cass couldn't feel the vibrations from that scraping flipping big axe until it was too late. All totally unrealistic.

Date: 2015-10-12 04:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alumfelga.livejournal.com
My main problem is with the way they are setting the Doctor and Clara up in this season in exactly the same way they did the Doctor and Rose in S2
Interesting point. And that leads to the conclusion something really bad will happen to Clara, doesn't it? They must be punished. But... what then?

Date: 2015-10-12 06:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shivver13.livejournal.com
That's one possibility. Another possibility is one that a friend of mine proposed that I hope does not happen. He thinks that Clara is going to become the human-Time Lord hybrid that the Doctor is going to create in the prophecy mentioned by Davros that the Doctor is running from. (You know, despite there already being a human-Time Lord hybrid - River. Moffat really loves playing with earthgirls.)

Date: 2015-10-12 06:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alumfelga.livejournal.com
I'm pretty sure the prophecy said a Dalek-Time Lord hybrid. I remember thinking at the time that there was a human-Time Lord metacrisis and a human-Dalek hybrid so apparantly it's time for Dalek-Time Lord combination because there are only three races in the universe *facepalm*.

Having said that... Clara was a Dalek in a way, even twice...

Date: 2015-10-12 08:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shivver13.livejournal.com
I went to look it up:

"It spoke of a hybrid creature. Two great warrior races forced together to create a warrior greater than either. Is that what you ran from, Doctor? Your part in the coming of the hybrid? Half Dalek, half Time Lord?"

No idea if humanity can be considered a great warrior race, but the wording definitely leaves it open to interpretation. Of course Davros would interpret it as Dalek and something.

Many giggles at "there are only three races in the universe"! :)

They really like the concept of "mightiest warrior", don't they? That's what was supposedly trapped in the Pandorica, the "mightiest warrior in history".

Date: 2015-10-12 09:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alumfelga.livejournal.com
So you're saying the "Dalek-Time Lord" part is Davros' interpretation, not a part of the prophecy? That's an interesting thought. If you take that assumption and think about it, Daleks quite fit (but, of course, it doesn't have to be them) but are Time Lords a warrior race? They haven't been before the Time War, even the creature from last episode said so. I suppose it's assumed it was them because the prophecy was somehow linked with the Doctor... Humans might be considered 'warrior', not so sure about 'great' though. But hey, we've been there in the end of universe, that's something!

...but what stops me, is the fact that there've already been a Dalek-human and Time-Lord humans. Don't tell me it's about River Song again!

Many giggles at "there are only three races in the universe"!
What else could it be? Sontarans aren't 'great', the Ood aren't warrior, the Silence are neither... Nothing fits, IMO. So many races but in the end, we end up with three ;)

Date: 2015-10-12 09:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shivver13.livejournal.com
It better not be about River Song!! But Alex Kingston is returning this season... If that's what this is all about, BBC needs to fire their marketers, allowing such a big reveal be leaked meta-wise through news about the actress returning to the show.

Heh, of course the Time Lords (way back when) should not have thought that the hybrid would be one of theirs. We have to assume that the Doctor was simply running away from his part in the prophecy. Or if it turns out to be the Time Lords, then we can just chalk it up to DW's continuity department being as sloppy as usual.

I know! I thought about the Sontarans, but they weren't even allowed to participate in the Time War because they were considered so inferior. Of course, there are many other races that have never been mentioned in the modern show (the Monans come to mind), but it would be very difficult to introduce one and get them integrated into the prophecy in the few stories we have left (since they're all two-parters, as far as we know).

Date: 2015-10-13 06:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alumfelga.livejournal.com
If that's what this is all about, BBC needs to fire their marketers, allowing such a big reveal be leaked meta-wise through news about the actress returning to the show.
That makes me think that plot isn't about her. It'd be an elementary mistake BBC knows better.

I thought about the Sontarans, but they weren't even allowed to participate in the Time War because they were considered so inferior.
Exactly.

Of course, there are many other races that have never been mentioned in the modern show (the Monans come to mind), but it would be very difficult to introduce one and get them integrated into the prophecy in the few stories we have left
Yeah, there's not enough time for something new. Well, we'll see ;)

Date: 2015-10-12 06:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shivver13.livejournal.com
Yeah, actually, I felt that Clara was very Rose-like in this set of episodes, with her reckless behavior and inability to take anything seriously, And now you point out that Twelve's "I'm only saving you guys because I'm saving Clara and you happen to be in the way" attitude harks back to Ten in S2.

I actually really couldn't tell the difference between the guest characters, which is probably pretty evident by the fact that I don't know their names. I only know O'Donnell because I thought at first that was the name of the captain in "42" (it's not - it's McDonnell). Anyway, feeling that the characters were indistinguishable made it difficult for me to detect any relationships of any type between them.
Edited Date: 2015-10-12 06:36 pm (UTC)

Date: 2015-10-12 07:10 pm (UTC)
shyfoxling: Ravenclaw crest (Default)
From: [personal profile] shyfoxling
I hadn't really noticed this parallel between Ten's fierce "I'm going to save ROSE" thing and this here with Clara. I guess it didn't occur to me because it seems like what I'm used to for the character of Ten whereas for Twelve it seems pastede on yey?

Date: 2015-10-12 09:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shivver13.livejournal.com
I'd like to agree that it seems pasted on, but as I think about it, I don't think it is. Twelve is obsessed with Clara (as pretty much every Moffat main character is obsessed with someone - he's said publicly that his Doctors are "besotted" with their companions), and as such, his motivations are pretty much centered around her. That's been pretty consistent throughout series 8 and 9.

Date: 2015-10-12 05:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com
I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it, honey.

*HUGS*

Date: 2015-10-12 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shivver13.livejournal.com
No worries! I think this one will be better on second viewing. :)

Date: 2015-10-12 04:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alumfelga.livejournal.com
If I remember correctly, there's this moment when Clara and part of the crew go back to the "central room" and O'Donnell hugs Bennett and Cass hugs the one who translated for her, and Clara goes something like "I'm fine, too, since no one cares". We can see who's most important to whom.

Date: 2015-10-12 06:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shivver13.livejournal.com
Ah, I remember that scene, thanks! I guess I didn't take anything significant away from it.

Date: 2015-10-12 07:14 pm (UTC)
shyfoxling: Ravenclaw crest (Default)
From: [personal profile] shyfoxling
And then there's Clara. I'm sorry, but if someone says they're going to die, who responds by saying, "No, you're not going to die, because that would really hurt me, so you can't do that"? I honestly cannot connect with this character at all, and she poisons the rest of the episode.

I'm kind of up to here with Clara. I find her annoying and oddly hollow. It's interesting to me that the blend/smush ship names that include her don't even really include her name. I assume that "Whouffle" mainly started as a joke around "souffle girl" and the standard puns on "Doctor Who", but the identification with the souffle - rather than a piece of her name - has continued down the line into "Whouffaldi" (which is curious that it takes from an actor's name rather than a character's, and in fact gives the Doctor two separate pieces) and even the difficult to pronounce "Missfle".

Date: 2015-10-12 09:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shivver13.livejournal.com
Agree! Though I have to admit, I was "up to here" with here about halfway through series 8. It's been a long, tortured road with her since then.

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